Posts by Must obey!

51

Special announcement next week?????

by seek2find in

jw
friends

it was announced at the meeting last night that next week all should be in attendance at the service meeting as a special important letter will be read.

this is in addition to the letter about the district convention.

any idea what it's about?

WTF with jesus christ .............

by grewupJWnoselfesteem78-95 in

jw
friends

by jesus returning in 1914 by only directing his attention towards earth...(flip flop flip flop) what does his actual presence consist of?

is he projecting his spirit from heaven..... .

what do they mean by presence now ?

U ask a very good question and the fact there is absolutely no sensible answer just shows how utterly false the Society's teaching on this is. This teaching is a huge insult to one's intelligence, which doesn't say much for 6.6million JW's intelligence.

28

John 19:14, a devastating contradiction?

by DT in

matthew, mark and luke claim that jesus died on passover (nisan 14) john, however, claims that jesus died on the day of preparation for passover (nisan 13) "now it was preparation of the passover" -john 19:14 nwt (it helps to read the context, several verses before and after.

) john also doesn't mention the lord's evening meal with his his apostles on passover.

it would have been impossible, because he was already dead, according to john.. the bible contains many contradictions that can possibly be reconciled if you have enough imagination, but this contradiction seems pretty blatant.

Must obey!

Why should John have to mention the passover meal? His gospel was written some time after the others, so the writer may have felt it wasn't necessary to go over old ground. The Johannine gospel differs markedly from the synoptic gospels in any event. It has a different purpose to those gospels. NT 101.

10

The Bible admits it is errant

by heretic5 in

according to the bible, the bible contains "leaven".. matthew 13:33 another parable spake he unto them; the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.. luke 13:21 it is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.. .

according to the bible, "leaven" is to be avoided.. matthew 16:6 then jesus said unto them, take heed and beware of the leaven of the pharisees and of the sadducees.. mark 8:15 and he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the pharisees, and of the leaven of herod.. .

according to the bible, "leaven" can be avoided by sorting the bible.. deuteronomy 19:15 one witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.. matthew 18:16 but if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.. 2 corinthians 13:1 this is the third time i am coming to you.

Must obey!

Hate it when posters quote the old archaic KJVstyle bibles. I never bother reading past the first line. This is the 21st century folks...we are no longer speaking medieval english!

4

The 144,000 is symbolic - it makes so much sense!

by cultswatter in

the wts says that the 4 living creatures around god's throne are symbolic and the 24 elders are also symbolic but the 144,000 are literal.

in the vision john is merely describing what he saw.

john does not make a distinction in the way he enumerating the persons/creatures of the vision.

Must obey!

Yep, it's totally symbolic.

12 x 12,000 is merely a symbolic representation for a state of heavenly completeness or fullness. It represents the full number of Christians who are resurrected to heaven, which is probably millions. The overall scriptural context makes this the most sensible interpretation by far.

32

2008 Memorial...How will Brooklyn fix this MASSIVE blunder?

by A-Team in

....brooklyn forgot that this year is a leap year in the hebrew calendar, and passover begins @ sundown on april 20th of 2008. now, will they fix this mistake, or come up with some crap excuse on why its not on nissan 14th this year?

either way, they are in a massive jam.

Must obey!

Geez does the WTS EVER just run with any standard secular dates or reasoning on anything?? Why do they always have to do every blardy little thing so different from everyone else? They must be the world's biggest contrarians.

36

144 000 blasted by the MATH (WT lying again)

by hamsterbait in

i just took nathan natas chart for numbers of memorial partakers since 1935.. i worked out that on average 823 new partakers have been added every year since 1936, whilst on average 716 have been dying each year.. what is especially interesting, is that when the total of new partaker numbers almost exactly matches that given in w96 15/8 p31 for 1935, is in the year 1995 - they year they began to deliberately create the fog around the "generation" teaching.

(i used actual figures, not averages here).

i am now convinced that they have been paving the way for the feb 15 noolite since then.. i disregarded the figure for 1935 itself, since the witchtower gives two figures for partakers -.

Must obey!

LOL John 10:30 doesn't simply state Jesus is God. Read the context for pity sake.

17

are they saying jesus came back now or not......

by grewupJWnoselfesteem78-95 in

jw
friends

i want to know if they have changed thier stance on weather jesus came back "invisibly" in 1914......?

.

are they sticking to this or slowley distancing themselves from it................. for all you km insiders [please expand] .

Must obey!

That's a great quote from the Proclaimers book Garrybuss, thanks. How totally farcical to pervert the meaning of "presence" to merely mean "turned his attention to the earth". Disgusting abuse of Jesus' words.

29

Destroy any JW's faith that they are the only true religion in 5 easy steps

by Must obey! in

try this on the next jw you meet:.

1. ask the jw what religious group jesus selected in 1919 to be his faithful and discreet slave organisation?

the jw will answer: "pastor russell & the bible students"good!!.

Must obey!

You're not grasping the logic. As I've said, it is quite easy to show that C T Russell must have been an "evil slave" then if those slaves were already in operation while he was still alive because there are many quotes where Russell was ideologically opposed to most things Rutherford changed in the organisation. To think that Russell could have been an evil slave is anathema to every JW, and the point can have a powerful effect on their thinking.

No it won't work with every JW Drewsagan but it will work with some because it certainly has worked on some JW's I've used it on. After reasoning with one of my friends on all this he went away and did some research on the internet about the history of the organisatioin and is now inactive.

I've said enough on the subject. Most posters seem to want to nitpick and resist it. Oh well, if you never try it on JW's then that is your opportunity lost.

29

Destroy any JW's faith that they are the only true religion in 5 easy steps

by Must obey! in

try this on the next jw you meet:.

1. ask the jw what religious group jesus selected in 1919 to be his faithful and discreet slave organisation?

the jw will answer: "pastor russell & the bible students"good!!.

Must obey!

Yes this does work best with those who already have some doubts, but it can cause doubts for those who aren't already doubting. And yes, its a matter of planting seeds. Its not a case of saying this reasoning "won't work" or it "definitely will". It can just be a powerful way of opening the door to their thinking, in my experience, and cause them to at least back off in being so smugly self-righteous about the org.

If the JW quibbles about 'new light' and the organisation of today having things more accurate than the bible students of 1919, then bring out how the Society has changed a lot since, say, the 1940's, for example, smoking was allowed back then and disfellowshipping was way more lenient and their was no blood policy and what were divorceable sex acts were different, etc. Then ask the JW "Was it Jehovah's organisation back in the 1940's"? Of course they will say yes. So all you have to do is ask them to apply the same perspective today and allow for the possibility that perhaps Jehovah is not very concerned about all these relatively minor errors so long as any group has got the main doctrines right? The JW may feel that only they have got the main doctrines right, but when they learn that there are still thousands of Bible Students who still believe JW's main doctrines, they often pause and think.....

If they want to hark on about Rutherford's reasons for branding the fallen away Bible Students as "evil slaves" then that leaves prime opportunity for you to analyse Rutherford's reasons and ask how could it be that tens of thousands of Bible Students, who the Society says were all anointed in 1919, suddenly turn from being the only approved Christians on planet earth into "evil slaves" in 15 short years or so. A reasonable minded JW (which most of my relatives and friends have been, thank goodness) can see this can seem rather unreasonable. Point out that if Russell had lived for a few more years and Rutherford had taken control, then Russell would undoubtedly have been one who would have left along with all the other tens of thousands of Bible Students? If the JW doesn't agree with this hypothetical proposition, then pull out some quotes of Russells was opposed to highly centralised control and the entire concept of "organisation", so he would have been opposed to Rutherford's new strict control and increasing ruthlessness. If you produce the exact quotes of Russell on this to make it clear that Russell would have been disturbed at the new direction Rutherford was taking.

If all else fails then pull out this trump card: If C T Russell was alive today he would be summarily disfellowshipped for apostasy! This point can really hit home with a JW who is already experiencing some doubts. At least in my experience.

Just a suggestion anyway. In my experience it is a waste of time trying to argue with JW's over their doctrines as a way of causing doubts...it is better to focus on the organisation and help them get a more balanced, objective perspective of it. This is one approach to do that.